Join us for an insightful discussion with Julie Hansen, an expert in virtual communication and sales, in this week’s special feature. We delve into the art of mastering digital interactions, exploring how to establish a commanding presence both on camera and in person. Our conversation will focus on practical strategies to enhance the authenticity and impact of your virtual engagements. We will examine advanced training techniques designed to align your self-perception with the way you are perceived online, addressing the complexities of contemporary B2B sales and the critical importance of digital proficiency in business interactions.
For those who find video meetings challenging, our discussion with Julie Hansen offers valuable guidance. We'll explore the nuances of nonverbal communication, the importance of energy in virtual presentations, and the effectiveness of eye contact with the camera. Hansen provides practical tips for navigating online platforms, ensuring that a lack of physical presence does not hinder your ability to establish strong connections and project confidence. Our session covers essential techniques for engaging effectively in virtual environments, whether in one-on-one negotiations or group presentations.
This episode also encourages you to stretch your boundaries in virtual expressiveness. Julie Hansen introduces her unique exercise to enhance dynamism on camera. You’ll learn how to elevate your energy levels and bring a memorable and engaging personality to your online interactions. Packed with actionable exercises and insights, this session is designed to prepare you for live presentations, ensuring you not only perform confidently but also leave a memorable impact. Join us to transform your digital communication skills and make a lasting impression in your virtual interactions.
Don't miss out—your next big idea could be just one episode away!
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Speaker 1: Welcome to Social Selling 2.0 Live Show and
00:00:03
Podcast, where each week, we explore the future of B2B sales.
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Social has changed the B2B and professional services landscape
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forever.
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Capturing and keeping buyer attention has never been more
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challenging.
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Our mission is to help you discover new strategies, new
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technologies, new go-to-market systems and stay up-to-date with
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what is working now in B2B sales.
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Your hosts are Carson Hedy, the number one social seller at
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Microsoft, tom Burton, a best-selling author and B2B
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sales specialist, and Brandon Lee, an entrepreneur with
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multiple seven and eight figure exits and a leading voice in
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LinkedIn social selling.
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Brandon and Tom also lead social selling 2.0 solutions,
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which offers turnkey consulting, coaching and training to B2B
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sales leaders.
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Now let's start the show.
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Speaker 2: Welcome to episode number 70.
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Brandon Carson, great to see you, and Julie welcome.
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Speaker 3: Thank you, happy to be here.
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Speaker 2: We have just found out, before we came on board,
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that we are surrounded Carson by celebrities.
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Speaker 4: I know, tom, I feel way out of place.
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We were talking about the movie and TV credits that are
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attached to Julie and to Brandon .
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Speaker 5: To Julie.
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Speaker 2: And to Brandon and to .
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Speaker 4: Brandon, of course, yeah, Now, hey, this is the very
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end of Fever pitch the Drew Barrymore Jimmy Fallon film.
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If you look in the crowd, I am there.
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Speaker 3: Yes, hey, that's something you get credit for
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that.
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Speaker 4: I cling to it till the day I die, absolutely.
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Speaker 2: And I have nothing.
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Speaker 4: We've been looking forward to this episode.
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For a long time I kept thinking in the back of my head when is
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the Julie Hansen episode?
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Because I see Julie's stuff on LinkedIn regularly, and what I
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love about her stuff and we'll talk about this during the
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episode today is how unique it is.
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Julie has got a great differentiated perspective and
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so she's coming from a place of being a real expert in her field
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.
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But she applies it to sales in a very unique way, and so I
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always see her stuff and I keep pinging Tom and Brandon.
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I'm like when's the Julie episode?
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So here we are, we're here.
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Speaker 2: Yeah, we're going to talk about something today that
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we have not really talked about, which is how do you really is,
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julie you phrase it command the digital stage, and how do you
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really have confidence with your communications online?
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And I guess we all live here, right, we all live in our world
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of video and Zoom.
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So, julie, why don't we start off and we'll report it to you?
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Go ahead, sorry.
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Speaker 5: Well, I just want to acknowledge the people who are
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commenting and welcome them, and Jonathan Long we haven't seen
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Jonathan for a while and Bob and Brian thanks for coming in and
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anyone else.
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We want these to be interactive .
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We want these to be about you, so any questions you have, any
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comments you have, throw them in there.
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We're going to do our best to get you up there, and Julie will
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be a wealth of knowledge.
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So bring the comments and for everybody on the podcast you're
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listening.
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Thank you so much.
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We appreciate it and, if you wouldn't mind, you'll like what
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you hear.
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We would really appreciate the review to help us with our reach
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and, of course, screenshot it and share it with people you
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think would find value from this as well.
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All right, tom, I'm out of your way.
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Speaker 2: No, thank you.
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I was about to say the same thing, but not as well.
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So, julie, tell us a little bit about your background and how
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you got into this whole area, and then we'll dig into some of
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the key topics here.
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Speaker 3: Sure, well, as Carson mentioned, I combine sales and
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acting because those are my two careers and my two passions.
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I didn't know when I was in sales that acting was going to
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play such a big part in my sales career, but it really did.
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When I started out in sales and I'm not going to start back in
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the year, it would be a long show if I do but I really came
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from a buyer's side and so I was used to people calling me back
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and so when I became a salesperson I was like whoa,
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this is a whole different world and it really rocked my
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confidence.
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And I saw all these confident salespeople around me and I
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thought what can I do to build my confidence?
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And I remembered that I liked acting and I started taking some
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acting classes and it really helped me find my authentic
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voice and be able to just face a lot of those challenges that
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used to make me want to hide.
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And it turned into a career.
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I worked in sales and acting at the same time and did some
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professional acting in New York for a while and I went into
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training and used a lot of my acting skills in that taught
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presentation skills, still do communication skills and when I
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saw the pandemic strike and everyone just being told hey,
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get, zoom, get on camera and go.
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I thought why are we not helping these people?
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Like?
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It's a whole new medium.
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When I started out as a stage actor which is how most actors
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start out it's a whole different skill set, and so when I first
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auditioned for a role in a film, I was terrible.
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I didn't know where to look, I didn't know what to do with my
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hands, I forgot my lines and I didn't know that it was special
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training and there were different skills to bring to
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this medium, and so that really created the book that I wrote,
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look Me in the Eye, and then the training that I do around that
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for sales teams to help people confidently, incredibly,
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communicate on camera, because it's not natural, and there are
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skills and some techniques that help make it easier.
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We're not allowing people access to those.
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Speaker 2: So did I hear you say that you were making sales
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calls and people were not calling you back.
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Speaker 3: Yes, was I doing something wrong?
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I never really experienced that Carson?
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Speaker 2: have you seen that?
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Speaker 4: No, not really, Of course.
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Speaker 2: I.
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Speaker 4: No, here's what's funny.
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So I think Julie and I have probably been connected for
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about five years.
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And, julie, I'm going to give you the ultimate compliment here
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because when I am living my day today, I get to spend a lot of
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time with customer executives, with people in my organization,
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with my team.
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I've done a lot of high caliber video presentations.
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I feel like I always have you in the back of my head telling
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me to look them in the eye, look them in the camera, and it's
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been infinitely helpful.
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So I love that you've kind of encapsulated.
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If we get video right, especially in this hybrid era,
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I'm all for it.
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I know you are too like meeting people in person and there's
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going to be a real value in that , but you do.
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You've got to command the digital, the video stage,
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because if you can do that, you can enhance your effectiveness
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in those situations.
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So in my mind, that's the ultimate compliment to you is
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that I always have you reminding me like hey, look them in the
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eye.
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Speaker 3: Well, yes, and then, and you embrace that and it's.
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It's one of those things that it's not the first time people
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hear that when I say it.
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But we don't do it for a variety of reasons, and partly
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is breaking up lifetime of you know, habit that we've developed
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and Not realizing how important it is and how the other person
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feels when we don't do it, and so we sort of dismiss it as like
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, oh, they know I'm trying and no, they don't know.
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Speaker 4: I Ask our audience, and then you know, brandon.
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Let's dive into some questions.
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No, no, you're good, great, great comment from Bob.
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I mean, yeah, I'm living example of that.
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What if you got a piece of radio?
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I'd love to ask the audience when Do you find yourself your
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self Prioritizing using video?
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When do you find yourself, maybe, not using video?
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Because I think there's a lot of times we'll show up to a
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meeting and we just go with the flow.
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We go with whatever other people are doing.
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It's funny I was actually in a chat a work chat earlier this
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week about, you know, talking about on our team meetings.
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When I'm running a team meeting , I always come out on video,
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whether everybody else is or not , and I find a lot of times when
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people come on to speak or present, they will go to video.
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But I think a lot of people have their default and I've even
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challenged some folks, especially ones that that almost
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default not to using video on with customer executives.
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Who wants somebody to spend money with you?
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You need to show them your face and your eyeballs right, right,
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that's the reason we're on video.
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Speaker 3: Right it's, it's not enough just to show up, but it
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is something to see you right, and especially in the age of you
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know all this AI floating around just to improve that
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authenticity.
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But really, if you're not using you know the camera, what make
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it a phone call like?
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If you really don't think it matters, if you think you have
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nothing to add by your humanness and by your personality and
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your energy and presence, and then use the phone, right then
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you don't need to be on video.
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But to to to Not turn it on because others don't have it on
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is Just for your own comfort and and we need to admit that,
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right, it's nothing, nothing less.
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Speaker 4: I show my face on every call I can and I don't
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have a face like Brandon Lee.
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So that's a that's a leap for me.
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Speaker 5: Person.
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Why do you think I have a beard ?
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You know, first grew the beard out.
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I did it as a joke and then when I said, oh, I'm gonna shave
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, my whole family said no, no, don't, don't.
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I didn't realize I look so bad without a beard.
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Oh, my god, julie, you know, I think it's, it's probably this
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that insecure our own personal insecurities.
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But Wait, how, for people that don't want to turn on their
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camera, like, how do you, how do you coach them or motivate them
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?
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And and what are a couple of, like, the key things I do we
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worry about too much, about our lighting, our background, or I
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know, Obviously we talked about looking people in the eyes, but
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what else?
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What are some of those just basic things to help people get
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more comfortable with being on camera?
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Speaker 3: I Find that people are bothered by things that make
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no difference to their audience .
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The first thing I was to help people is turn yourself image
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off.
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That's a.
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The last person you want to make eye contact with when
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you're on camera is yourself, because nobody looks at
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themselves and go yeah, I look awesome.
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No, we go.
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What is going on with my and and my face?
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I need to smile that we paced on some smile.
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There's nothing to do.
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It's just been with what's just been said.
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So it's understanding what matters to your audience the
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your audience isn't.
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It's not a beauty contest, whether you're in person or
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whether you're virtual, it's.
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Does this person appear credible, competent, confident?
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Are they?
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Do they look like they're interested in me?
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They're not very concerned about your hair, how your hair
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turned out or you know Right.
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So it's getting people off that focus Is.
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That creates a lot of vulnerability and no one is
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judging you as harshly as you judge yourself.
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And the other thing about it is a.
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When you don't have the good skills, when you're not sure if
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you're doing it right or you're Lighting sufficient, or you're
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making eye contact when you should, or you're moving, you
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know using your hands funny.
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That are creating more distraction than adding context.
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Then you're gonna be in, you're not gonna be confident, and and
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the camera picks that up Because we are literally in
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someone's face when you're in person, you rarely look at
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someone's face this intensely for that long, and so those
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Insecurities, those incongruencies will start to
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leak out, and so you do have to develop that inner confidence.
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So it's partly awareness and understanding More about your
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audience.
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How do I make my audiences stop thinking about yourself and how
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do I make my audience's experience, as you know,
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wonderful as possible?
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Speaker 2: So I have a kind of a follow-up question to that,
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julie.
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So what I hear you saying is the people are not scrutinizing
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how you look.
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So what is it that they are looking for?
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And they are scrutinizing, organizing when they have them
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on camera, like what is it that really matters versus what how
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we actually look?
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Speaker 3: great question what?
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What we notice when we first meet someone.
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If you think about when you we make a first impression and
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there's studies on first impressions you know how fast we
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make a first impression, by the way.
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Does anybody know?
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Speaker 4: Seconds, 20 minutes 20 minutes, a long impression.
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Wow, really bring my egg game in 20, 20 minutes I can.
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Speaker 3: Why do you?
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Speaker 4: like me, tom, because I didn't give you like, I gave
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you a lot of time and yeah, yeah , right, I was so right.
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Speaker 3: Well, Tom's very generous by the way.
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Most studies say somewhere between seven and ten seconds.
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People decide if you're trustworthy, if you're, if
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you're confident, if you're likable, if you're worth
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listening to.
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So the the Answer.
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That question is really a question how do we convey those
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qualities Right up front, like?
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How do we quickly convey credibility, confidence,
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interest, attentiveness, like ability and those, unfortunately
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, are also the hardest qualities to Communicate on camera.
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If we try to do it just the same way we did in person, which
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is, which is one of the biggest mistakes that I see people
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making is just assuming Well, I can just you know, I'm just
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sliding over here from being in person into this new medium.
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I'm just gonna do the same thing and expect it to work,
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which is, you know, doing the same thing over and over and
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expecting different results.
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It's not gonna have the same impact for a variety of reasons,
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whether it's the how the camera distorts things or reads things
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, or how our behavior changes when we're in front of a camera,
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or doesn't change when it should change.
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Speaker 5: I think that is very, very insightful.
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I mean, what I heard you say and correct me if I'm wrong is
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that just going on camera and being the way that we are in
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real life doesn't translate.
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So we need to rethink the way that we are on camera.
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Speaker 3: Yes, and you know the old rule.
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It, you know showing up is 80% or it's.
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It's not true anymore.
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That was true in the beginning.
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We're all so excited to have a way to to get together and
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connect and see each other.
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But you know, everybody got kind of stuck there, right.
00:15:30
It's like it said oh, that's good enough, it's not good
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enough.
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I mean, there are people that are really excelling in this and
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learning how to not just show up but to make other people feel
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seen and heard while they're talking to them in a virtual
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meeting, which is a huge leap to actually make them feel, you
00:15:50
know, the emotion, the energy of the conversation.
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And those are where we can go if we actually look at this as a
00:15:59
new medium and and Adapt to it the way that it works.
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Speaker 4: Yeah, julie, I want to piggyback on that because, I
00:16:08
agree, I think you know, a lot of times there's the anytime
00:16:12
that somebody has a compulsion not to go on video.
00:16:14
It's probably because you do have to turn on different
00:16:19
engines of yourself to Maintain focus and you can't multitask,
00:16:25
because customers will see that, they will know that they don't
00:16:29
have your undivided attention and so there's that added
00:16:31
pressure.
00:16:31
If you're not on video, you can maybe get away with something,
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but, believe me, the second somebody asks you a question, if
00:16:37
you're multitasking, they'll catch you anyway.
00:16:39
I often, you know, I even call out, sometimes, like, especially
00:16:44
, I'll do a lot of interviews, right, a interview candidates,
00:16:47
I'll even tell people.
00:16:48
Or if I'm meeting someone for the first time, you know,
00:16:50
customer executive, I might even call out.
00:16:53
You know, hey, I'm taking notes , so I don't want to give you
00:16:57
the impression that I'm not paying attention.
00:16:59
So you know, there's almost an etiquette as well to the video
00:17:02
element.
00:17:03
Wow, it's been four years Since the start of the pandemic.
00:17:07
I'd love to hear your thoughts, julie, on what have been your
00:17:10
biggest learnings over that time span around how to really stick
00:17:16
the landing when it comes to leveraging video.
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Speaker 3: Well, I think one of my biggest learnings has been
00:17:22
that a lot of people are Okay with the status quo and they
00:17:27
assume they're coming across like they intend to, and so it
00:17:33
took me a while to finally develop an assessment that
00:17:37
really helps people see like this is.
00:17:39
This is how your first impression is, this is how other
00:17:42
people see you, this is how credible you come across, this
00:17:46
is how engaging you are, and it's an eye-opener and and I
00:17:50
find that in pilt, people realize that they think they
00:17:55
live in this fantasy world that I just I assume everything's
00:17:59
okay.
00:17:59
I always ask people do you believe and I'll throw this out
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to you guys Do you believe that you are perceived as the same
00:18:07
engaging, authentic, interesting , confident person on video as
00:18:13
you are in person?
00:18:17
Speaker 4: That's a great question what do?
00:18:19
Speaker 3: you think?
00:18:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean it's interesting, I think that.
00:18:22
I hope so right, you know you think about it and there's a
00:18:27
comfort in that medium of being in person and live.
00:18:32
And I found it that over the last few years, especially
00:18:36
transitioning to doing as much virtual as we do, it doesn't
00:18:42
become as familiar a muscle to be in person.
00:18:44
And what I mean by that is like I've spent the better part of
00:18:48
the last four years really trying to master this medium and
00:18:51
improve on tactics and etiquette.
00:18:54
But when you go back to an in-person setting as much as
00:18:58
I've always loved that it is it's a completely different
00:19:01
muscle.
00:19:01
You're doing different things, right, you're engaging, you know
00:19:05
you might be sharing a meal, and so there's just there's
00:19:08
whole other elements to it.
00:19:09
This is very much its own unique medium.
00:19:12
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
00:19:12
And if you think about it and it's interesting, you say that
00:19:16
because I think that there's truth to that when you don't use
00:19:18
it enough, you start to lose it .
00:19:21
And even though you feel like, oh gosh, I've done, how many
00:19:27
virtual meetings do you think you've had over the past four
00:19:29
years?
00:19:29
A couple thousand, 10.
00:19:33
And so you start to feel like, well, I know how to show up, I
00:19:37
know how to do this.
00:19:38
But if you think about it, that pales in comparison to the
00:19:42
number of in-person meetings, interactions, connections that
00:19:46
you've had, where you have gotten tons of feedback over a
00:19:50
lifetime, whether it's solicited or unsolicited.
00:19:53
You've had classes, you've had just exchanges with people where
00:19:57
you go oh, that didn't land very well, I better not do that
00:20:00
again.
00:20:01
And we have just very little, if any of it, virtually.
00:20:06
So we're just kind of going along hoping everything's coming
00:20:08
across okay, but not really having any idea.
00:20:11
And that is a dangerous place to not understand how your
00:20:15
audience perceives you on their screen.
00:20:16
And if you don't know that, then what are you going to fix?
00:20:21
Speaker 4: Well, I don't want to get a comment on that.
00:20:24
And then, yeah, tom, I'd love to go to you.
00:20:26
I think the challenge is when you're in video, because
00:20:30
sometimes those interactions aren't as impactful as an
00:20:35
in-person relationship and an in-person transaction.
00:20:38
I find let's use a football analogy you can get the ball
00:20:44
down the field very considerably in a lot of face-to-face,
00:20:47
in-person interactions and sometimes virtually, you don't
00:20:51
advance the ball quite as much.
00:20:52
So I think in video it almost feels like you.
00:20:55
To really be impactful, you've got to up the ante, you've got
00:20:59
to really make sure you're almost over-engaged in those
00:21:02
settings, as opposed to in-person, where it's a little
00:21:05
bit more comfortable.
00:21:07
Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
00:21:08
And the thing is, if you're looking to differentiate, you
00:21:13
have to go beyond the words that you say.
00:21:15
And I think most people and in sales, I grew up this way in
00:21:19
sales too think it's all about what you say and very little
00:21:23
about the exchange and the connection, and I think we're
00:21:28
seeing more of that.
00:21:29
But if it was just about the words, we could all send each
00:21:34
other great emails, right.
00:21:36
Obviously, there's a human quality that drives that forward
00:21:40
, and if you are just relying on the words, you're not setting
00:21:45
yourself apart from the competitors.
00:21:46
In fact, if you have a competitor that's doing more
00:21:49
than relying on the words, you're at a real disadvantage.
00:21:51
And so understanding, how do we make them actually feel
00:21:54
something?
00:21:55
How do we motivate people in this rather artificial
00:21:59
environment and make them feel something as opposed to just
00:22:02
know something?
00:22:04
Speaker 4: And I've never met any of the three of you in
00:22:06
person, but I do feel like, because we've been on video
00:22:09
together, that I can be myself with you, which I think says
00:22:13
something, because if we had never seen each other be a video
00:22:15
, that wouldn't be the case.
00:22:18
Speaker 2: I'm going back to your question, julie.
00:22:20
You asked about do you feel more comfortable in person or
00:22:23
are different on video than in person, and I've been thinking
00:22:26
about that as we've been going through here.
00:22:28
Personally, I feel way more comfortable in person, but I'm
00:22:33
realizing why is I'm not watching myself in person, I'm
00:22:38
watching you, but here on video I'm watching myself.
00:22:40
So not only am I sort of scrutinizing myself, but I'm
00:22:43
also talking to you, which I think is a skill that you have
00:22:48
to develop to your point, right.
00:22:49
You have to get used to it and build that out.
00:22:51
Absolutely yeah.
00:22:54
So maybe it's a question or maybe it's just.
00:22:56
I've got to justify my actions a bit.
00:22:58
I know I get in meetings, especially if I'm so I
00:23:03
understand, like you're having a one-on-one or something like
00:23:06
that, the importance of that really being present.
00:23:08
But I'll get in meetings.
00:23:09
Sometimes there'll be 10 people on there and I'm not really the
00:23:13
center of what's going on, and so I want to multitask, I want
00:23:17
to get other things done while that's going on, and it's
00:23:19
obvious if you're multitasking so you turn off your video.
00:23:23
Do you feel like that is also sort of a if you thought there's
00:23:30
a mistake that you should make when you're in a meeting with a
00:23:32
larger number of people.
00:23:34
Speaker 3: Look, if you're on video and you think you're
00:23:37
invisible at any given time, you're living in a fantasy,
00:23:41
right, so it.
00:23:43
And I feel like, if you know, think about it as a presenter,
00:23:48
even if you know, go back to your in-person presentation days
00:23:51
, like Carson, and you'd have some members of your team there,
00:23:54
and if you looked around and they were like taking notes and
00:23:58
maybe you've seen this, they're on their phone and your
00:24:01
customers see that too would you think that's good behavior?
00:24:05
No, you would have a talking to them and say, hey, you need to
00:24:09
at least look like you're interested.
00:24:11
If I'm talking right, people are forming an opinion and just
00:24:17
because it's easier for us to tune out and we have stuff to do
00:24:22
and we wouldn't do that in person Well, some people
00:24:25
obviously have done that in person, but you know it's we try
00:24:30
to justify it to ourselves because it's uncomfortable, it's
00:24:34
extra work and and yes and yes, but ultimately, whose comfort
00:24:40
is more important, yours or the audience?
00:24:43
Speaker 4: This episode just has me thinking in so many
00:24:47
different directions because it's as we pointed out at the
00:24:50
beginning.
00:24:50
I mean it's very different than a lot of the episodes that we
00:24:53
do Like, for instance one, tom, I appreciate your candor in
00:24:57
stating that.
00:24:58
You know, sometimes you find yourself looking at yourself and
00:25:01
I'll tell you, like I've done some presentations to executives
00:25:07
, that if I had done them in person I probably would have
00:25:10
been very, very intimidated.
00:25:12
But because I was honestly able to look at myself and tune out
00:25:16
everybody that I was presenting to and it was almost like I was
00:25:18
looking in the mirror, it helped me.
00:25:20
So it's knowing that medium sometimes and how you can
00:25:23
leverage it to your advantage is super helpful.
00:25:25
But I'd also like to flip that.
00:25:27
And, julie, one of the things that challenges me sometimes,
00:25:31
especially as a leader, is when I'm presenting to a bunch of
00:25:35
empty spaces people that aren't on video.
00:25:37
You're just casting your vision out to nobody.
00:25:42
How do you entice people to use video more, especially
00:25:45
internally?
00:25:46
Speaker 3: Right?
00:25:47
Well, you know, sometimes you don't have a choice, Like if
00:25:51
you're the salesperson and the client doesn't have their video
00:25:55
on.
00:25:55
You know you can try and make it inviting, but you don't have
00:25:59
control over that.
00:25:59
Certainly you might have some authority to do it if it's your
00:26:05
team, but really I think we don't really give enough credit
00:26:12
to how difficult it is to talk to a camera when you can't see
00:26:16
anyone else, and that is as close to acting as most people
00:26:21
will get without any of the training or skills that build
00:26:25
confidence in that area.
00:26:26
So when I work with people, a lot of times it is like working
00:26:30
with okay, how do we talk to people who aren't, that we can't
00:26:34
see?
00:26:35
And this goes for video outreach as well.
00:26:37
That's what a lot of those videos are just so wooden
00:26:40
because salespeople don't have any.
00:26:42
They don't have the skills to connect with someone they can't
00:26:45
see, and it's understandable.
00:26:47
Why would you?
00:26:48
Right, this is entirely new and what I always try to remind
00:26:53
people of is, you know, it's skills.
00:26:55
But it's also an understanding that just because I can't see
00:27:00
you doesn't mean that you're not having a reaction, that you're
00:27:04
not having sort of a dialogue with me.
00:27:08
It's still a dialogue.
00:27:09
It's just oftentimes your part is silent and what salespeople
00:27:14
think, or most people think, when they've got an audience
00:27:17
they can't see and there's no input, you know it breaks that
00:27:22
communication loop that we're familiar with, where we say
00:27:25
something, we get a response, we interpret that, we got nothing
00:27:30
to interpret, we got nothing to work with, so we just keep going
00:27:32
, we just keep talking, Instead of understanding that if I say
00:27:36
something funny, even though I don't see you laughing, I might
00:27:40
think you know you're probably smiling and it gives me the
00:27:44
right cadence and conversational tone to keep going and not feel
00:27:50
like I'm talking in a vacuum, and also to pause and not race
00:27:55
through everything and not give people an opportunity to jump in
00:27:59
, which is half the problem on video.
00:28:05
Speaker 5: I don't know anything .
00:28:06
That what that's like.
00:28:07
Today, julie, I have a practical question.
00:28:11
When my co-hosts are so excited and asking a bunch of questions
00:28:15
and I'm just sitting there, should I smile or do I stand
00:28:19
serious, like how do I?
00:28:21
And I joke and it's totally fine, I'm okay.
00:28:24
But I do have that question, like, and I was thinking about
00:28:30
it when Carson was asking good questions, tom was asking good
00:28:33
questions and seriously I joke around, I'm totally fine.
00:28:36
How do you, like I wonder, I was sitting there going okay, so
00:28:41
I'm not as involved in the show , that's okay.
00:28:43
What do I do?
00:28:44
Do I smile?
00:28:45
Do I nod?
00:28:46
How do I stay attentive?
00:28:49
I mean, I know I'm not gonna do this, but how do I stay
00:28:52
attentive and good nonverbals when I'm just I'm, you know,
00:29:00
part of it, but I'm not as involved.
00:29:02
And there's a couple of good comments in there I'd like to
00:29:04
get to as well.
00:29:05
Speaker 3: Okay, that's a great question, and this brings up the
00:29:08
whole point of active listening , which is one of the things
00:29:12
that is missing most in our virtual communications for a
00:29:16
variety of reasons, and a lot of that is just the nature of you
00:29:22
know the two-way communication.
00:29:23
So if I say little things, like those little listening noises
00:29:27
that you used to be able to pick up in person the other person's
00:29:30
talking, they can't hear that right.
00:29:32
And also this common problem, this presence that we bring on
00:29:36
video, which is low energy.
00:29:38
The first thing that goes with low energy is your facial
00:29:42
expression, and you're seated in your comfy chair and you have
00:29:46
what I call resting business face.
00:29:49
It doesn't give off an ounce of emotion.
00:29:53
I don't know if you're happy, you're sad, the dog died, I
00:29:57
don't know.
00:29:58
And it's problematic not just in listening, when you're
00:30:03
listening, but also when you're presenting, because if you don't
00:30:07
think about your face, which we never used to have to in person
00:30:13
, sometimes we just get really into this resting face that
00:30:18
we're in and we forget to let our face know when something is
00:30:21
good or bad.
00:30:22
I always say watch your video, turn off the sound, and I should
00:30:27
be able to tell from your face if it's good news or bad news.
00:30:31
At the most basic level, there's a lot of things in
00:30:34
between there that can happen, but honestly, this is our 20%.
00:30:40
This is the 15, 20% that people can see of us.
00:30:44
If you're not using your face to help communicate and I don't
00:30:48
mean miming for the camera, but finding those authentic
00:30:53
expressions and emotion you're making it harder than it needs
00:30:58
to be.
00:30:58
But, brandon, to your point, it has to be authentic and what
00:31:02
happens is just like you said, like how should I look?
00:31:05
Well, if you're really listening, do you have to think
00:31:08
about that?
00:31:08
No, if you're listening and you find something interesting,
00:31:12
what do you do when you're interested?
00:31:13
But sometimes we have to warm up those expressive muscles so
00:31:18
we have more access to them, because we forget to use them on
00:31:21
video.
00:31:23
Speaker 5: So the resting business face resonated with me,
00:31:26
except I heard it as a different expression I think it
00:31:28
was a D word in the middle and my kids actually told me that
00:31:33
when I'm thinking they used to think that I was angry at stuff.
00:31:37
And a lot of times in meetings or someone's listening, I'm very
00:31:40
attentively listening and I'm processing and I got to realize
00:31:44
and it wasn't until I was more on Zoom that I realized, oh yeah
00:31:48
, you don't look good right there, you should probably stop,
00:31:51
and that's true and that's part of that awareness.
00:31:53
Speaker 3: We have to know how maybe some of our expressions
00:31:57
are.
00:31:57
They come across differently than we intend.
00:32:00
It's like we are judging ourselves by our intentions and
00:32:04
our audience is judging us by our actions and how it makes
00:32:09
them feel.
00:32:09
So there's often a disconnect there.
00:32:13
Speaker 4: I do wanna ask a quick question kind of on that
00:32:15
vein, Like I do like the fact that they've added the emoticons
00:32:20
where you can love or like, or you can clap in the midst of a
00:32:25
video meeting or call.
00:32:26
What are your thoughts on avatars?
00:32:33
Speaker 3: Look, there's a lot of AI going around.
00:32:34
I don't know that we need to add more to it.
00:32:39
Speaker 4: I feel like we're gonna get to this point where
00:32:40
people I mean, is it better to use an avatar than video's
00:32:45
person, than nothing at all?
00:32:47
I mean, definitely not than video.
00:32:48
But I just I don't know some of these things.
00:32:51
They confuse me.
00:32:53
I don't know where we're going with all this.
00:32:55
Like I love the fact that we can show a clap without clapping
00:32:59
and that I can show that I'm thumbs up like hey, I agree with
00:33:02
this without having to jump in and speak, but I don't know, I'm
00:33:06
scratching my head around, like the use of avatars and things
00:33:09
of that stature.
00:33:10
Speaker 3: I think you know my goal on camera is to make it
00:33:13
feel like we're sitting across from each other having a cup of
00:33:16
coffee.
00:33:16
So trying to recreate as much of that in-person experience and
00:33:22
it's not a normal in-person experience to sit across from a
00:33:26
cartoon figure, you know, and maybe that's not the impression
00:33:33
you want to convey we have to think about who our audience is
00:33:36
and what does that say to them that say I couldn't bother to
00:33:39
show up in person or I'm not that serious, I'm not taking
00:33:44
this as seriously as I might.
00:33:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, I envision a world someday where AI will give
00:33:50
us the ability to like, mirror ourselves.
00:33:53
But, like you know, tom, you could add hair right to the
00:33:56
video.
00:33:56
Tom, you're muted.
00:34:02
Speaker 2: That's part of my presence is to be muted.
00:34:04
That's what people say is I'm much better off when I'm muted,
00:34:08
I've been told.
00:34:08
So hey, let's hit a couple of these questions, because there's
00:34:12
some really good stuff coming in here, and I'm gonna hit
00:34:15
Anthony's here first.
00:34:17
It's a little bit of a long one .
00:34:18
He says I'm curious, 99% of my time is my camera's on walk the
00:34:24
walk for the role I'm in.
00:34:25
Depending upon the closest and the relationship, though,
00:34:28
especially new ones, as we're talking about picking up on cues
00:34:31
of their comfort and if I sense there might be some weirdness,
00:34:35
usually I'll ask if it'd be better to turn it off or what
00:34:37
they prefer.
00:34:38
I think what he's asking here is, if somebody else is
00:34:41
uncomfortable, right.
00:34:42
If you're in a meeting and the other person is uncomfortable,
00:34:46
is it good etiquette to kind of go hey, would you be less, you
00:34:49
know, be more comfortable if we just did verbal here?
00:34:51
I think that's the question.
00:34:54
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's an interesting question I would say
00:34:56
how do you know they're uncomfortable and why would you
00:34:59
think it's because you're on video?
00:35:01
I think we have not learned enough about reading virtual
00:35:07
body language to be great judges of that, so I would just be
00:35:11
hesitant to assign that meaning to some behavior that might mean
00:35:15
there's something else going on there, comfortable about that
00:35:19
has nothing to do with you.
00:35:20
And that's often true of when we look at it in an audience and
00:35:25
you know or get a glimpse of our audience and they look like
00:35:29
you know, they look bored, and instantly we go, oh my God, they
00:35:33
hate me and this is terrible, and they start to speed up and
00:35:37
just do all the things to make it even worse, when in fact
00:35:41
that's a very common on-screen behavior for audiences, because
00:35:45
it's relatively new that this is a dynamic two-way conversation
00:35:50
and we're used to sitting in front of any kind of screen, you
00:35:54
know, just ready for popcorn and a show.
00:35:57
So it's often dangerous to misinterpret that behavior, I
00:36:04
think.
00:36:05
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, and I wanna before.
00:36:06
Brandon, I know you wanna jump in with a question here, but it
00:36:09
was actually Brian's question, that then.
00:36:12
So I wanna make sure, brian, because that's, I think, a
00:36:15
really good question.
00:36:16
Speaker 5: I just see that.
00:36:16
Yeah, that was the one I wanted .
00:36:18
Speaker 2: Yeah, because I think you see that all the time.
00:36:20
Right People like you know.
00:36:21
Do you feel like you're better off?
00:36:22
We just did this without it, or whatever.
00:36:25
So I think that's a great point .
00:36:26
Speaker 5: Brandon, go ahead and jump in with your but I think
00:36:29
that question too, though, is Julie what do you recommend if
00:36:32
you get on a Zoom or a Teams and they don't turn their camera on
00:36:36
?
00:36:36
What should we do?
00:36:41
Speaker 3: I give him an easy, just hang up.
00:36:43
No, I just say, hey, if you're open to it, I'd love to see you
00:36:49
in face to face and just say hello, like it's just for a
00:36:53
minute or something, and a lot of times people turn it on,
00:36:55
they'll just leave it on and then just let it go, but
00:36:59
otherwise I just go forward as if we're having a conversation,
00:37:02
because we are.
00:37:03
I just can't see you, and that's my problem, not yours,
00:37:06
and you get every advantage of being able to see me, and that
00:37:12
connection that's gonna start to build is gonna happen for you.
00:37:14
It's gonna be harder for me, I don't deny that, but that's not
00:37:20
the important thing.
00:37:21
The important thing is that you feel connected.
00:37:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, there's a lot of really good stuff being
00:37:26
dropped here, and I think one thing that this really resonated
00:37:30
for me is that it depends on the situation.
00:37:32
It also sometimes will depend on the level of relationship
00:37:37
that I'm trying to build.
00:37:38
If, by default, it's like a monthly cadence that this
00:37:41
customer has with my team and I'm just popping in, I may not
00:37:44
hop onto video, because I also don't wanna distract.
00:37:46
I don't wanna be the only one that's on video.
00:37:48
I want my team to be able to do their thing, but if I'm meeting
00:37:51
a senior leader for the first time, I'll lead with video.
00:37:55
On the same token, sometimes there will be situations where
00:38:00
Julie, you made a really astute observation earlier where
00:38:03
sometimes we may be distracted by the body language that we're
00:38:06
picking up from somebody that we're talking to, which is all
00:38:08
the more reason why sometimes I try to look at that light.
00:38:11
I'll see their face, I know they're there, but instead of
00:38:16
getting caught up on looking at their face while I'm talking, I
00:38:18
may just look at the light so that I don't get distracted by
00:38:21
anything and I can still speak freely, and then, when they're
00:38:23
speaking, I'll look directly to them.
00:38:26
Speaker 3: Okay, yeah, I think that's easy to get distracted by
00:38:30
those signals, and I would say that when someone is talking, if
00:38:38
you think about when you're in person, how do you feel like
00:38:41
someone's listening to you when you're talking?
00:38:42
This behavior?
00:38:45
Does that make you feel heard?
00:38:46
Never, probably not, and so we do that a lot on camera, and I
00:38:53
know this is one of the most counterintuitive skills and it
00:38:57
takes practice and some technique to do it.
00:39:02
But to make someone really feel heard on camera, making eye
00:39:06
contact is one of the most powerful things you can do, and
00:39:12
we think that we're gonna learn something from people's body
00:39:14
language and first of all, like I said, you can see some of
00:39:18
their body language.
00:39:18
If you have their, if you're one-on-one and you have them
00:39:23
full screen, with your peripheral vision, you can catch
00:39:26
a lot of things.
00:39:26
You can catch major changes in expression, body language, but
00:39:32
the odds of catching someone's body language in a little square
00:39:37
of a bunch of people at the right time to learn anything
00:39:41
from that is pretty low, and so that listening behavior is
00:39:47
really important.
00:39:48
I just wanted to point out.
00:39:49
Speaker 4: And I also wanna say briefly, and then Brandon on to
00:39:51
you but what's fascinating to me ?
00:39:54
So there are also times where you can really use video to your
00:39:57
advantage.
00:39:58
I was in a very tough deal negotiation a few years ago and
00:40:02
I was the only one on camera and I was getting the business from
00:40:07
some people in procurement that were not too thrilled with me
00:40:13
and they were not on video, but I maintained video, maintained
00:40:16
composure, maintained eye contact at the camera the entire
00:40:19
time and was able to keep my cool, and I think that there is
00:40:25
a strength in being able to leverage the video medium as it
00:40:31
is in situations like that.
00:40:32
I mean, definitely it wasn't to intimidate or anything.
00:40:36
I'm here, I'm being my genuine, authentic self.
00:40:39
I understand your feedback, I understand where you're coming
00:40:42
from.
00:40:42
This is my vantage point, this is where we are, this is where I
00:40:46
feel like we're going, this is why I need what I'm asking for,
00:40:49
and so I felt like that made a difference in that negotiation.
00:40:54
Speaker 3: I'm sure it did.
00:40:55
Eye contact virtually or in person conveys confidence,
00:40:59
credibility, listening, interest .
00:41:02
It's such a powerful tool and one of the beauties of the
00:41:07
camera that we don't necessarily have when we're in person is
00:41:11
that just by looking at it I can have a group of 100 people on
00:41:15
here and everybody feels like I'm talking just to them, and if
00:41:19
you know how to leverage that, that is a huge advantage.
00:41:24
And most people are busy going trying to cover all the little
00:41:27
squares and make sure they're talking to anybody, which makes
00:41:30
no one feel like you're talking to them, right?
00:41:32
So it's something that you can't really do in person either
00:41:37
.
00:41:37
You're kind of always talking to one part of the room and try
00:41:40
to balance that out.
00:41:41
But there are good things about the camera too.
00:41:46
Speaker 2: Well, I think that ties into Bob's comment here
00:41:48
about not liking the Brady Bunch screen, right Is that when in
00:41:52
person you're usually directing your comments to somebody
00:41:55
specific, but in Zoom sometimes you're not, it's more and again.
00:41:58
I think that comes back to a skill that you have to start to
00:42:01
develop along the way.
00:42:03
Speaker 3: Right and it's a skill, it's an acting.
00:42:06
You learn that when you are talking to a camera, you never
00:42:09
talk to a group of people.
00:42:11
When you're on camera, because it is a personal medium,
00:42:14
everyone is having their own personal experience with you.
00:42:16
So, even if I think of talking to a group, I tend to be more
00:42:21
formal, a little more presentational, very a little
00:42:24
vaguer with my eye contact and my intention, whereas if I think
00:42:30
I'm just talking to you, I'm very specific, I know who I'm
00:42:35
talking to, I have you in mind and we're having a conversation
00:42:38
and it's very tailored in person .
00:42:42
Speaker 2: Brandon, I think that's why you really stuck out
00:42:44
in that lunchroom scene and back to the future, because you were
00:42:47
just like really good eye contact and we couldn't miss you
00:42:50
.
00:42:51
Speaker 5: So anyways, nice, nice.
00:42:55
Julie, I have two questions for you.
00:42:57
One is like in acting, you gotta go 30 to 50% more
00:43:05
expressive for the camera to catch it.
00:43:07
Is it the same when we're on Zoom?
00:43:09
And then the second part.
00:43:11
Then all you talk is what are your thoughts on these type of
00:43:14
cameras?
00:43:15
I thought they were good in theory, but I'll explain my
00:43:20
experience with it.
00:43:20
But what are your thoughts on that for people?
00:43:24
Speaker 3: Sure.
00:43:24
So energy.
00:43:26
Energy is a huge problem and that's the reason people are not
00:43:29
very expressive on cameras.
00:43:30
That energy depletes that.
00:43:32
But you're right, you have to bring more energy Not the same
00:43:35
kind of stage energy, because that's always a little elevated.
00:43:40
But what happens on camera most people don't realize is it
00:43:46
takes away a big chunk of that energy, like you said, about
00:43:48
half your energy.
00:43:49
And so you have to bring more.
00:43:52
And most people are just showing up at their regular
00:43:57
level of energy.
00:43:58
So your regular level of energy , take away half of that.
00:44:02
That's a really low energy place and if you don't do something
00:44:06
to boost that energy, then it's gonna be a very dull experience
00:44:11
for everybody.
00:44:12
And I heard the worst advice recently and I've heard this
00:44:15
before from in-person presentation skills.
00:44:19
But you should match the audience's energy.
00:44:21
It's like, oh my gosh, if you do that in a virtual meeting,
00:44:24
it's gonna be just duller than dirt.
00:44:27
Right, you have to bring enough energy for you and the other
00:44:31
side of the screen, because you're not gonna get it from the
00:44:35
other people.
00:44:35
You're not going to be able to rely on that to bring your
00:44:39
energy out.
00:44:40
And your other question was about that is that the center
00:44:43
cam?
00:44:45
Speaker 5: Yeah, the one I got is called eye to eye.
00:44:47
Yeah, okay, okay.
00:44:49
Speaker 3: You know, those are fine if they help you with the
00:44:52
camera placement, but you've gotta put it somewhere on your
00:44:55
screen and that's not typically the problem with people.
00:44:58
If you make it a more favorable place, great You're.
00:45:02
Still, it's gonna block hard to somebody's face.
00:45:05
It's going to not cover everybody else in the other
00:45:08
square.
00:45:09
The real trick is, how do I look at one spot for an entire
00:45:15
hour or however long I'm on a presentation or as much of that
00:45:18
as possible, and make it feel personal and connect with you?
00:45:22
So those can help.
00:45:24
Especially if you've got a giant screen and you've got your
00:45:29
camera on the top of it, that's gonna be a really bad angle.
00:45:32
So those can help with that.
00:45:34
Speaker 2: Brandon, do you not like it, or what was your?
00:45:36
What was your?
00:45:38
Speaker 5: No, you know, it brings in a lot of light and it
00:45:42
focuses it very centrally, so it like washes out my face and
00:45:48
it's really focused.
00:45:50
Speaker 3: So it just it's not a great, it's not great on the
00:45:54
other side, Right right, Some of those like the plexi camera.
00:45:58
It's just you get to drop your camera down in front and
00:46:02
position it, but you've still got that camera there right in
00:46:05
front of somebody else's face.
00:46:06
So if you're hoping it will make it easier to make eye
00:46:12
contact with them, you're still not gonna be able to see them as
00:46:15
well.
00:46:17
Speaker 5: Yeah, I think the thing that you said that really
00:46:19
resonates most with me and I forget, is bringing that extra
00:46:23
energy to the table.
00:46:26
And I think Bob was saying just eyebrows up, and one of his
00:46:29
comments was saying eyebrows up.
00:46:31
And that is a really good start , just eyebrows up.
00:46:34
But yeah, sometimes it's, you know, we get in that thoughtful
00:46:39
contemplative, we're listening, we forget that we're also then
00:46:43
portraying really, really low energy.
00:46:46
Mm-hmm absolutely.
00:46:49
Speaker 2: So I officially have to admit this is the most
00:46:51
uncomfortable episode we've ever had for me anyway, just in
00:46:55
seeing all the things that I need to improve on related to
00:46:58
this.
00:46:58
Julie, if you were to give, as we kind of wind down here, for
00:47:04
somebody to what would be three things that you would recommend
00:47:08
for somebody to do, to really start kind of drilling and
00:47:12
working on this, on how do you improve this?
00:47:14
So, like anything, right, you don't get better practice and
00:47:18
you don't work to get good at it .
00:47:19
What should we be practicing and what should we be doing and
00:47:23
how do we tell that we are improving?
00:47:25
Like, what are some things that help us understand what we're
00:47:29
improving?
00:47:30
Speaker 3: Right, right, well, so a couple things you can do is
00:47:33
, you know, the goal of making more eye contact is like oh yeah
00:47:36
, I need to look at the camera more.
00:47:37
I need to look at the camera more.
00:47:38
Well, we need to break that down.
00:47:40
When does it really matter?
00:47:41
So if you start by just looking at the camera during those
00:47:44
times where it really makes a difference, which is, for
00:47:47
example, when I'm making a key point, I wanna say this is gonna
00:47:51
save you, you know, 25 hours a week, as opposed to this is
00:47:56
gonna save you 25 hours a week, right, it's gonna have more
00:47:59
impact If I say it when.
00:48:02
If I look at the camera when you are talking, it's gonna make
00:48:05
you feel heard and understood.
00:48:07
If I look at the camera when I ask a question, you're going to
00:48:12
get a better answer.
00:48:13
You're going to be more likely to get an answer because if I
00:48:16
look down here when I ask a question so what's your goal to
00:48:21
improve in video this year and everybody's like is she talking
00:48:25
to me, right?
00:48:26
Or, as opposed to, if I ask it to the camera and I just hold it
00:48:29
there, so being very specific, and then you start to build on
00:48:34
that.
00:48:35
So those are some good places to start specifically with eye
00:48:39
contact.
00:48:39
The rest it's important to know just how you're coming across
00:48:44
currently just building that awareness.
00:48:46
Watch yourself on video.
00:48:48
But to Tom's point earlier about people being comfortable and
00:48:52
critiquing themselves so harshly it's very hard to be objective
00:48:56
and do that.
00:48:56
So I use a very specific self-evaluation form that keeps
00:49:02
you focused on.
00:49:03
We don't care about your hair, we don't care about the funny
00:49:06
thing you do with your eyebrows.
00:49:07
Did I look at the camera this amount of time?
00:49:10
Did I ask a question to the camera?
00:49:13
Were my gestures mostly in frame and did they add context
00:49:17
or were they fast and distracting?
00:49:19
So those are the things I would start.
00:49:22
And, lastly, always warm up.
00:49:24
To get to that good energy place, you gotta warm up, you
00:49:29
gotta bring it whatever that is for you and includes warming up
00:49:33
your face and doing some expressive exercises.
00:49:39
Speaker 2: And as you talk about this, I don't know about you,
00:49:41
but I'll sometimes go through a day where I'll literally have
00:49:44
back-to-back zoom meetings, like literally no time between them.
00:49:48
But I think and I've been trying to set them up now where
00:49:50
I do like 45 or 50 minute meetings, so I have 10 minutes
00:49:54
between one to the other.
00:49:55
But what you're saying is it's not just hey, so you can go to
00:49:59
the bathroom and take a break.
00:50:00
It actually allows you to kind of okay, take a step back,
00:50:03
recharge and know what you're going into for the first one, so
00:50:06
they all just don't blend together.
00:50:08
Speaker 3: Right right.
00:50:09
Speaker 2: I mean, I think for me that's something that all of
00:50:12
this kind of fits into.
00:50:13
Speaker 4: Tom, you should be talking to yourself in the
00:50:15
mirror when you gotta go to the bathroom, so you can get
00:50:17
yourself amped up.
00:50:17
Speaker 2: I do that.
00:50:18
Yeah, I do that.
00:50:19
I walk you on the hall talking to myself, that's a trick.
00:50:21
Speaker 3: See my information.
00:50:23
Speaker 4: One of my big takeaways here today is look as
00:50:26
sales people, sales professionals, sales leaders we
00:50:29
need all the tools that we can possibly get our hands on to
00:50:33
positively impact and influence the relationships that we're
00:50:37
trying to create.
00:50:37
There's a lot of great ways to use video.
00:50:39
Like, and, julie, I'd be interested in, like, your
00:50:43
thoughts on the transition of video over time.
00:50:46
I mean, obviously, video was available before the pandemic.
00:50:48
It became very prominent and then there became a lot of
00:50:51
additional tools that we could leverage that there were part of
00:50:54
video.
00:50:55
You know we talked briefly about avatars and all these
00:50:57
other changes.
00:50:57
I'd be interested in the changes that you have seen, that
00:51:00
you have been really fond of, like, other ways that we can
00:51:04
really maximize the video experience, and I'll give you an
00:51:06
example Like, one of the things that I really love to see is in
00:51:10
trying to keep with that eye contact and high energy and
00:51:14
obviously not wanting to come across like I am reading a
00:51:16
script.
00:51:17
I mean I can position my key notes right there on my screen
00:51:21
so that I am, in essence, touching on or reflecting on
00:51:25
those notes while I'm looking right at you, which you know,
00:51:28
knowing your medium.
00:51:29
It goes back to you being an artist, being an acting, you're
00:51:34
always kind of understanding and knowing your medium and we're
00:51:37
all kind of, in essence, sometimes putting on a show.
00:51:40
We're putting on a performance.
00:51:41
You know we're acting in the role of great sales professional
00:51:46
and our presentation is the performance and so you know, I
00:51:51
would love to get your thoughts on, like, what has been really
00:51:53
helpful that's come along.
00:51:55
It's helped you to optimize your video experience and when
00:51:58
you're coaching others, maybe you bring their attention to
00:52:00
that.
00:52:01
Speaker 3: Well, I think your point about notes is a big area
00:52:06
because that encompasses like presentations and demos, and so
00:52:09
I work with a lot of teams who say, well, I'm never gonna be
00:52:12
able to make eye contact because I'm demoing or I'm showing
00:52:15
slides, and the fact is that that shouldn't keep you from
00:52:22
making enough eye contact.
00:52:23
Yes, it's gonna be less, but there are times where you wanna
00:52:29
talk directly to the camera, you wanna.
00:52:31
There's a technique that you learn as an actor how to work
00:52:35
with a script and still and do a live reading with the rest of
00:52:42
the cast when you're not quite off book, right.
00:52:44
So you get a line and then, instead of like reading it to
00:52:47
the screen like this is really gonna save you $10.
00:52:51
I get it and then I bring it over here and I say so, this is
00:52:55
what's really gonna save you $10 a month as you go
00:52:59
through this program, and so those kind of techniques are
00:53:04
really helpful, and there's just a lot of them that are more
00:53:10
skills-based.
00:53:11
I think we are quick to grab any tool that we think is going to
00:53:14
do it for us, and especially in terms of outreach.
00:53:19
And you know well, I gotta get the right cadence and I gotta
00:53:23
get this.
00:53:23
You know what's the best subject line and those are all
00:53:26
great.
00:53:26
But I'll tell you what if you don't grab my attention in the
00:53:28
first you know seven seconds of that video, I'm not watching it
00:53:32
and neither is you know your prospect.
00:53:35
So it's understanding.
00:53:37
You know how do I engage people very quickly, without tools,
00:53:42
right with that human connection and the piece that that plays.
00:53:45
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, look, your video experience that you
00:53:48
deliver to a customer as an example is not going to be the
00:53:51
end-all be-all, just like on all the episodes that we talk about
00:53:55
.
00:53:55
Your LinkedIn connection request or your comment isn't
00:53:58
gonna be the end-all be-all, but it's a tool that's there at
00:54:01
your disposal that can help you create a genuine authentic
00:54:05
relationship with someone, and if you don't leverage it the
00:54:09
right way, then you're missing out.
00:54:12
Speaker 3: We're not only missing out, you're wasting a
00:54:13
lot of time, and that's what I, you know, I see happening is
00:54:17
just by putting things out, because, like you talked earlier
00:54:20
about people, like I just gotta put out more LinkedIn, I gotta,
00:54:23
you know, post more.
00:54:24
You know, people are quick to get rid of things that don't
00:54:31
meet their needs or meet a certain bar of their
00:54:36
expectations, and so that is no longer appropriate.
00:54:40
So, yes, we need to gain some efficiencies in this area, and
00:54:43
part of the inefficiency with video is when you're
00:54:47
uncomfortable and when you don't know what you're doing and you
00:54:49
don't know what to do better or how to do it, and that's gonna
00:54:52
make it less efficient for you.
00:54:54
And so being better at this means, you know, means more
00:54:59
efficiency, more productivity and more videos that get watched
00:55:02
and acted upon.
00:55:06
Speaker 5: So, julie, before we wrap up, what exercises do the
00:55:10
three of us need to do before we go live next week?
00:55:14
Speaker 3: Oh my gosh.
00:55:15
Speaker 5: okay, so here's two we're saying warm up our face
00:55:19
and warm up our calories.
00:55:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're left in the show, brandon, for all of
00:55:22
that, I don't think.
00:55:23
Speaker 3: I have the perfect exercise for everybody.
00:55:26
Okay, so this is called the over the top exercise and what it is
00:55:32
is.
00:55:32
You take any type of content.
00:55:34
It could be a presentation, it can be a story, it can be you
00:55:37
know something you read to your kids and you just deliver it
00:55:40
like you know your best al Pacino, or you know thinking
00:55:44
your most over the top actor, and like this is gonna be blah,
00:55:48
blah, blah and you just you move and you express and you
00:55:52
emphasize different words and you just have fun with it.
00:55:54
And when I do this exercise with people it's so interesting
00:55:58
because a lot of times what they give me when I say go over the
00:56:02
top, is just a really nicely elevated presentation, because
00:56:07
people don't have a good sense of what their best energy is.
00:56:10
But we need to go over the top so we know kind of what that bar
00:56:14
is and then if you do it again and you don't try to push it,
00:56:18
you're gonna be nicely elevated, your expressive muscles are
00:56:21
gonna be ready to go and you're just gonna be way more dynamic
00:56:25
and have that screen presence to carry into the next
00:56:29
conversation.
00:56:30
Speaker 4: Tom lives over it Right, Like what the heck.
00:56:32
I don't know if Tom can get any higher.
00:56:35
Speaker 2: I don't know.
00:56:36
This is gonna be some serious work I'm gonna have to do.
00:56:39
Speaker 3: I know I think you should have fun with it.
00:56:41
Just go over the top.
00:56:42
Speaker 2: I think right now we are going to wrap this thing up.
00:56:45
This has been an amazing episode and, Julie, you have
00:56:49
been awesome.
00:56:50
Is that better.
00:56:52
Speaker 5: Tom, that was incredible that was so awesome.
00:56:55
Speaker 4: You have to bring that energy every single episode
00:56:58
.
00:56:59
Speaker 2: Yes, I thought I was bringing the energy, oh man, you
00:57:04
brought it just this.
00:57:05
Speaker 4: Next time, wait a minute.
00:57:05
Speaker 5: Who is this guy Carson, seriously.
00:57:08
Speaker 3: That's awesome.
00:57:08
Did that feel super over the top Tom?
00:57:11
Speaker 2: I need to go have a drink.
00:57:12
That's what I feel like when I think of over the top.
00:57:14
Speaker 4: I think of that old Sylvester Stallone arm wrestling
00:57:16
movie.
00:57:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, we could do impersonations and everything.
00:57:20
Yeah, we just had a round, I'm ready, I am ready.
00:57:24
Speaker 3: Really, tom, there's your energy.
00:57:25
The bottom line is, if you're in a virtual conversation, a
00:57:29
presentation, a demo, whatever, and if you're not having fun
00:57:32
with it, then no one else is either.
00:57:34
So, bringing that energy that brings out your, we want to see
00:57:39
your personality.
00:57:40
That's part of that screen presence that connects people
00:57:45
with you.
00:57:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, and it's what you asked earlier about being in
00:57:50
person.
00:57:50
It would be much easier for me to be that way, for me In person
00:57:55
.
00:57:55
There I feel like I'm overdoing it, but it probably is balanced
00:57:58
if you were in person versus on .
00:58:00
You have to.
00:58:01
You said you have to overemphasize the people.
00:58:04
Speaker 5: I want to hear what you think about it, Tom, when
00:58:06
you go back and watch the video and watch yourself on it.
00:58:10
Speaker 1: Is it?
00:58:11
Speaker 5: That was really good.
00:58:12
Seriously, I'm like, who is this guy?
00:58:14
Speaker 4: After these episodes, tom studies at night.
00:58:16
He sends us notes like Brandon, I need you to do this, carson,
00:58:20
I need you to do that.
00:58:21
Speaker 1: So when he was running tonight.
00:58:22
Speaker 4: He's like sending us notes at 3 am.
00:58:24
I want to know how you feel about rewatching yourself going
00:58:27
over the top.
00:58:28
Speaker 2: Tom, all right, that's fair enough, that's fair,
00:58:30
that's fair.
00:58:31
Speaker 4: I would watch that all week Okay.
00:58:36
Speaker 2: All right, well, we've learned something, julie.
00:58:39
How can people find out Now, I'm like, I'm a machine.
00:58:42
Now, julie, how can we find out more about you, like?
00:58:45
Where do they learn more about all of this?
00:58:47
Speaker 5: And how do we learn more?
00:58:48
Keep them in frame.
00:58:49
There you go.
00:58:50
Speaker 3: I got to be careful what happened with the fingers?
00:58:53
Speaker 2: you never know.
00:58:54
Speaker 3: Don't get too close to the camera.
00:58:55
Right.
00:58:56
You can find me at juliehansonlive or on LinkedIn
00:59:01
and do video outreach, training, virtual meeting presentations
00:59:07
and virtual executive presence.
00:59:10
Speaker 2: Awesome.
00:59:11
Well, I'm going to check that out, Carson Brandon.
00:59:13
Any final thoughts before we wrap up here?
00:59:15
This has been very enlightening .
00:59:18
Speaker 4: Amazing.
00:59:19
Speaker 5: I'm just glad Carson got the movie referencing before
00:59:21
we were done.
00:59:22
Speaker 4: Yeah, you know we try to get one in every show and
00:59:26
this is no different.
00:59:27
But it's hard after 70 episodes , you know, to keep them fresh.
00:59:31
So glad that somebody said over the top so we could invoke an
00:59:34
old 80s Stallone movie.
00:59:36
You know I was here with you.
00:59:38
You're the only reference to Over the Top the Stallone movie
00:59:41
on a podcast this week.
00:59:43
Speaker 5: As you should be.
00:59:43
Yeah, yeah, right.
00:59:45
I was thinking you were going to pull in a little bit of like
00:59:47
the Truman Show, where he did movies on camera.
00:59:51
Everyone else did.
00:59:53
Speaker 4: I actually did think of that, and then I couldn't
00:59:55
remember if we had referenced that at some point, so I didn't.
00:59:58
I held back.
01:00:00
Speaker 2: All right.
01:00:00
Well, thanks to everybody for all the comments.
01:00:02
The comments were great.
01:00:03
Some really great feedback today Again.
01:00:05
Thanks again, julie, and next week, I believe, we have Patrick
01:00:09
Tenney and we're going to talk about negotiation, so Love.
01:00:13
Speaker 4: Pat Tenney the other the other equation.
01:00:17
Speaker 3: All right, thanks again All right, thanks
01:00:20
everybody Our studio was a pleasure.
01:00:22
Speaker 4: And thanks for joining today and until next
01:00:25
time, happy modern selling Thanks everyone.
01:00:31
Speaker 2: Hey, tom Burton here and I wanted to personally thank
01:00:34
you for listening or watching today's episode of Social
01:00:38
Selling 2.0.
01:00:38
If you enjoyed or found value in today's show, please share
01:00:43
with your friends and colleagues .
01:00:43
Also, we'd really appreciate it if you could leave a review on
01:00:48
iTunes or your favorite podcast outlet.
01:00:50
And please also subscribe to our YouTube channel and join our
01:00:55
free online community at socialselling20.com.
01:00:58
There you'll get free access to the latest social selling
01:01:03
resources, training sessions, webinars and can collaborate
01:01:07
with other social selling professionals.
01:01:08
Thank you again for listening and I look forward to seeing you
01:01:12
in our next episode.
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